Wine or Whine Forums and the Internet (Sept 22)

 

This is part one of a two part story and this section is likely to be one of my more controversial stories. I am fully aware that it will probably upset a fair percentage of my readers who love wine forums, but the story will be told nevertheless. Let me state from the outset, I have been a user and lover of wine forums for many years and whilst at one end of the spectrum, they can be fun, a fantastic tool and provide a wealth of knowledge, at the other they can also be a complete and utter waste of time as well as being filled with more rubbish than the local tip.

 

Simply put, a wine forum is a cyberspace gathering place, where people from all over the world meet to exchange ideas about wine, ask questions, share their knowledge, arrange get-togethers, and discuss various vinous topics. On the surface, all of that sounds good, and it is. However, there are other aspects to wine forums that are not as pretty. The idea for this story has been brewing in the back of my mind for quite some time; it actually germinated as a result of a lengthy thread on an Australian wine forum where a disgruntled patron complained because he was theoretically having difficulty in having a corked bottle of wine replaced. Regular readers know whose side I would be on in these situations, but as I had a good relationship with the winery, and had had corked wine replaced by them previously without any problem, I contacted the winery involved and told them about the thread, hoping they would get involved and put the fire out before it became an inferno.

 

What was interesting about this situation was that I was hearing one side of the story from the winery, whilst reading information that was a little inconsistent with that position on the wine forum. In this situation, the facts were not really in dispute; it was more a disagreement about “attitude” and as an impartial observer I could see there was right and wrong on both sides. Clearly, the winery needed a better returns policy but by the same token, the original complainant, who works in the industry, had a bit of a dummy spit that was not entirely necessary, and that dummy spit caused the winery’s reputation a level of damage that frankly it did not deserve.

 

As I was in contact with the winery at the time over other matters, on a couple of occasions I touched base on this issue to gauge their reaction to what happened. Needless to say, they were not impressed with the power of the Internet and generally don't have much regard for wine forums. To some extent, they got some of what they deserved, but probably more than was realistic, so I can understand their dislike for wine forums. The situation got me thinking and for some time in my travels, I have been asking winemakers, and more importantly winery owners what they thought of Internet wine forums and the Internet in general. The results are fascinating.

 

Reactions to say the least are mixed, but one thing is not in doubt, almost all wineries believe in the power of selling wine through e-tailers. Some wineries are almost Internet illiterate, so unsurprisingly they don’t think much of the Internet because they know little about it. In the case of smaller wineries, a lot of their feelings have been dictated by any affect it has had on their business.

 

If the effect has been positive, then in most cases they will think it’s a good thing; conversely, if it is negative, naturally enough they will not be impressed and think the Internet lacks credibility. Superficially that makes a lot of sense but it is more complex and there are more issues involved.

 

The key word in the previous paragraph was the word credibility; how credible are wine forums? It is this credibility that is the key to how wine businesses perceive the Internet. The vast majority of wine forums are an offshoot of wine or wine-related businesses, although some have become businesses in their own right and survive through advertising. There are very few that are not financed in some way by the wine industry. The motivation of the business for having a wine forum plays a key role in the nature, character, and credibility of the forum.

 

Many wine forums, particularly the main two in Australia, are run by wine retailers who obviously have a vested interest in selling wine, yet the nature of the two forums and the way they are run could hardly be more different. Winestar Forum is tightly controlled and moderated; even the mention of a competitor is likely to get the post deleted and providing a link to a site that does not meet with the approval of the owner will guarantee the post is deleted immediately. Winestar is not unique in this approach; other forums like WCWN have similar attitudes and rules.

 

By comparison, Auswine Forum which is run by another Australian e-tailer has a more relaxed and open attitude, being mature and confident enough to know that links to other wine forums or other wine web sites can actually be a good thing and in the scheme of things, are not likely to cost him business.

 

In terms of wine forums that are not run by retailers, here we have examples that are not just poles apart, they are worlds apart. At one extreme, you have WLDG and Mark Squire’s Forum which is located on the Robert Parker web site, and at the other Wine Spectator. Both of the first two mentioned forums are carefully moderated and if you say anything of the board owners don't like, you can expect to be told about it in no uncertain terms. Some years ago, I was kicked off the Squire's Board for the saying things, which were 100% true, provable, were all wine related and were well within the scope of civilised discussion, but they were not liked by the moderator because the comments could have been seen as embarrassing to him (and he didn’t like it being pointed out.)

 

In a second incident, recently someone asked for information about visiting wineries in the Hunter Valley on WLDG Forum. My response was rather flippant and suggested a trip to the “Southwest Hunter Valley,” also known as South Australia may yield better wine tasting opportunities. The board owner was not impressed and finally, after publicly chastising me once, told me it was his board, he could say what he liked and told me to stop acting like a six-year-old.

 

I am not at all upset about either of these two occurrences and have only mentioned them to illustrate that when posting on wine forums, the poster is at the mercy of the board owner and logic does not necessarily come into the equation, the responses from board owners can be emotional.

 

Speaking about emotional, at the other end of the spectrum are forums like Wine Spectator. Although when you sign up to post on Wine Spectator, you agree to abide by the rules, the board is not moderated and virtually anything goes. You can be a slanderous as you like; as vulgar and obnoxious as a badly behaved pig and your posts are unlikely to be removed, and if they are finally nuked it is rarely done in a timely fashion.

 

Even well-run forums can get into trouble. On a number of the US Forums, after the devastating flooding of New Orleans, wine conversation turned to the disaster. In almost every case, the debate became very heated and on a number of forums the topics either wound up being locked or deleted.

 

All of these examples and scenarios can and will be viewed and interpreted differently by individuals. The one central factor in all of them is conflict and wine forums (just like real life) can be full of conflict. Now imagine a wine maker or small winery owner coming to these forums for the first time and on a regular basis seeing, not just disagreement, but real conflict. What impression do you think it is likely to leave in their mind?

 

Whilst we are dealing with negatives, besides dictatorial moderation (now there's an oxymoron) of the forums, and conflict there are still two other negatives to be explored. Sprouting off at the mouth can take many forms. Frequently on wine forums people will prattle on about a subject as though they are expert, when in reality they have no expertise and blatantly know little of the subject that they are talking about; they spew forth information that is blatantly and factually incorrect. By this, I am not referring to subjective differences of opinion which are perfectly acceptable; I am talking about “flat earth thinking.”

 

Another form of sprouting off at the mouth which also does little to enhance the credibility of forums is when you see something like this example

 

Person One - “This is the brainchild of the only MW Dentist, Georghiu or whatever...can't remember the pronouciation.”

 

Person Two - “He is the wine consultant for the Hilton hotel group............”

 

Person One “….(I’ve) met that arogant wimp. You’d make a better choice.

 

This post is still here and has never been deleted, despite the fact it is on a reasonably heavily moderated forum that frowns upon name-calling.

 

One other aspect which I have noticed and was debating whether to include or not has now been included due to an email I received from a local winemaker. He said

 

“By the way, I have been thinking about the polarisation in recent years of a sector of the wine buying market.  A bloke on a forum awhile ago described my X*X*X as a “sweet plummy fruit bomb”.  He also used the words "soft and easy to drink" which is probably fair but to him I am sure that “soft and easy to drink” is a criticism.  I think there are a number of people out there who dislike a wine unless it is 'hard work'.  Something along the lines of: if you open the bottle and pour a glass and it smells and tastes bloody good and rolls down your neck without presenting a challenge then it must be simple crap.  If, on the other hand, the capsicum, tomato and mint slowly, or terroir characters recede after two hours in the glass, and the red fruits start appearing then this is wondrous stuff of great complexity.  In other words a growing backlash against the rich, round balanced wines with supple tannins that I like to drink and make.  Who knows?”

 

The winemaker here has hit on a key point here. We are all entitled to like whatever wine styles we enjoy but on some forums there are two groups of people who can cause a negative impression to the outside world. The first group is the “the right taste brigade.” These wine lovers think they have a monopoly on what is good wine, and what people should be drinking; equally they "know" their preferred style is perfect and everything else is just inferior. Frequently members of this brigade are vocal in their thoughts and enjoy telling other people their taste is essentially in need of a makeover.

 

The second group in the section could best be described as "the club.” As you would expect, like-minded people gather together because they enjoy each other's company, they become friends and like to share experiences. Wine forums are no different, in many ways they are like a club. Naturally, over time wine forums grow and change, much of this change is caused by the changing palates of the members. The higher the percentage of forum members with mature, experienced palates, the slower and less this change is likely to be; however, if a reasonable percentage of the members have palates that are developing and are on "a voyage of discovery" the more likely the change to the forums key personality. People like to be part of something they help to create and wine forums are generally the sum of the input of their members, and whilst that support is critical to a successful forum, it can have a downside.

 

A voyage of “palate discovery” is a wonderful thing and something to be encouraged, but it should not be, and need not be, at the expense of those who are not embarking on the journey. In many cases, the participants on a “palate discovery journey” frequently try and encourage others to join them, which is commendable, provided their comments don't come across as though they are a member of "the club” outlined above: unfortunately without realising it, many of theses journeyman become members of the club. It normally doesn’t take long; whilst heralding the virtues of their latest discovery with one breath, with the next they are criticising the taste of wines that they would have been praising only a short time before, all in the name of “palate maturity”.

 

So once again I will repeat the question; for a moment, please place yourself in the shoes of someone else and imagine you are a wine maker or small winery owner coming to these forums for the first time and seeing, not just disagreement and real conflict, but slagging commentary, and the arbiters of taste dictating what is right and wrong.  What impression do you think it is likely to leave in their/your mind?

 

All of these examples are the negatives but there is a lot more to wine forums than has been portrayed so far. Wine forums can be and are an incredibly valuable, educational and positive place to not only learn about wine, but an area where the love of wine is fostered, nurtured and they can do an incredible amount of good for the industry.

 

 

As I browse wine forums on a regular basis, the depth of knowledge and experience of some of the contributors never fails to amaze me, as does the generosity of these talented people in freely imparting their knowledge and assisting others along their wine journey. Yes, wine forums can be a fantastic tool but they are not a private club for the sole personal gratification of each poster. The comments are public and outsiders do read them, sometimes even the people/winemakers being written about; possibly some posters haven’t stopped to think about these things, or possibly don’t care who they offend; but the posters are part of a community and the sum total of all comments made results in the forum’s overall credibility.

 

Credibility is hard to earn, it is not a right even for a wine forum.

 

Next week an updated, more detailed look at some of the major wine forums.