Weekly Article
Sydney Time
Copyright © Ric Einstein 2009
The A to Z of Wine Forums (Sept 29)
Wine Forums are like clubs; each one has its own unique identity and set of individual characteristics that set it apart from the others. Like clubs, some are better than others, a few are incredibly successful and naturally there are a number of flops. They tend to cater to people's specialised requirements and interests, but most importantly, they represent an embodiment of their membership. To the outside world, it is the character and attributes of the individuals that make up the membership that gives the club or in this case the wine forum, its persona. Groucho Marks’ immortal words, "I don’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" frequently comes to mind when I think about some Wine Forums.
This “form guide” will examine the various characteristics and attributes of a number of the wine forums. I fully realise some readers will take exception to my comments in regard to their favourite wine forums, but this is designed to be a no-holds-barred exposé showing the best and worst characteristics of those examined.
Australia
There are currently two major wine forums in Australia today, both are driven by wine retailers.
The oldest, which has been around
in one guise or another since the start of the Internet is the
Auswine Forum. It is owned and run
by Gavin Trott as an offshoot of
The Australian Wine Centre, an Adelaide
based fine wine e-tailer. This was the first wine forum I posted on and it is
still my favourite. Like many forums, a small percentage of the members
contribute a disproportionately high percentage of the posts. Many of the core
posters are in the over-40 brigade and have many years of Australian wine drinking
experience behind them. These contributors provide a
solid knowledge base about
Australian wine
that is not found anywhere else.
The majority of the conversation tends to centre around wine (or the industry)
and there are very few non wine-related topics posted. Whilst there is a little
chit-chat and banter, it is a minor in comparison to many other forums.
Much of the conversation revolves
around red wine, although from time to time it does drift into less opaque
matters. A few small makers contribute to the Forum on a regular basis, but I
know for a fact that this forum is read extensively by many people in the wine business.
Sometimes the most incredibly complex questions are asked, and the answers
given show an enormous scientific and practical understanding of winemaking, from
viticulture to marketing and everything in between. The depth of technical wine
and viticultural knowledge of some of the people that post on this forum never
fails to amaze me. Frequently I'm left scratching my head trying to understand
the technicalities, and yet those with less wine experience, but a greater
scientific understanding, have no trouble in grasping the topic. Such is the
makeup of this forum, and whilst it is hardcore, it welcomes new posters with
open arms. Although the forum is moderated, the owner has an open attitude
resulting in a light hand on the controls, and very few posts are nuked.
The one aspect I dislike about this
Forum is that unregistered people can post as “Guests.” Unfortunately,
sometimes when you have multiple Guests posting in the same thread, it can lead
to confusion; however the biggest downside is that some “Guests” are serial
drive-by Richard Craniums with nothing positive to contribute and just enjoy
posting stupid, inane, argumentative or inflammatory comments to disrupt the
flow.
About two and a half years ago, the
Auswine Forum was slammed by the new kid on the block, when
StarForum was started by
Bert Werden as an offshoot of Strathmore Cellars, (and
its internet e-tailing arm
WineStar.)
The forum was an instant hit for a number of reasons. Firstly, in a clever
move, a StarForum Panel was established; the panel was made up of independent
wine lovers and many wine samples were sent to the panel for review. The
tasting notes were then posted on the forum, and were seen to be independent of
the retailer himself. Naturally many the wines that rated well were also
featured in the weekly newsletter, which was good for business. The Star Panel
members got trade show tickets and were offered other "inducements and
privileges" which helped their standing in the forum community; however
they still had to build and maintain their own credibility. In the early days,
the Star Panel members were major contributors to the forum and were key to its
success, although in recent times the panel has basically vaporised.
StarForum has a number
of hardcore, vocal players who have obviously become firm friends, and as a
result the forum has a very cliquey atmosphere. Whilst they welcome new members
with open arms, you are either part of the clique or on the outer and whilst
being on the outer may not bother many members, some people don't like it. This
is not a criticism of the forum or its members; it is just a characteristic of
the nature of this group. Whilst there are some members of the forum with
extensive wine tasting experience, it tends to be dominated by younger wine
drinkers than those on Auswine. Many participants have developing palates; as a
result they are taking their taste buds on a journey of discovery, so the
discussion is moving into foreign territories (literally as well as
figuratively, there is a strong move to French / Old world styles amongst the
more affluent members). The forum is moderated; one of the biggest sins that can be committed his
providing a link to other sites that do not meet with the approval of the board
owner, these are quickly deleted.
One other forum that is worth
mentioning is the old
Winepros
Forum which was originally part of the James Halliday Winepros site. In
its heyday, whilst it was never a great forum, it certainly did a good job of
getting people interested and involved in wine. Unfortunately, over the years Winepros
failed to be financially viable and sometime ago it was sold off to a
winemaking and retailing conglomerate. Since then, it has gone further
downhill; indeed if it was a horse, it probably would have been put out of its
misery by now, they should just kill it off rather than letting it linger a
slow and painful death.
The UK,
Europe etc
The biggest and best wine forum in
the UK is located on Tom Cannavan’s
wine-pages.
This is an interesting, all-in-one wine site that has been around for about a
decade and looks to be financed primarily by advertising. The
UK Wine Forum
insists that all posters use their real names and whilst debate can be intense,
it is always exceptionally polite, typically British. The UK wine market is one
of the most competitive and diverse in the world, and this diversity is
reflected in the tastes and broad spectrum of wines being discussed. It is a
cosmopolitan board with a vast cross-section of tastes amongst members who argue
and discuss in a good-natured fashion.
Members of the board, naturally
enough, tend to support UK wine writers and whilst there may be some support
for Robert Parker, when the inevitable and regular clashes occur about critics,
the general consensus is predictable. Non wine-related topics such as cricket
and rugby tend to be favourites. The makeup of the members experience is as
diverse as the UK wine market itself. Whilst there is a broad depth of
experienced Old World palate, there is a good level of knowledge about New
World wines as well. The board can be as forward thinking as tomorrow, for
example its acceptance of screw caps; whilst at the same time being as stodgy
as last century, as illustrated by some member’s belief that terroir is the be
all and end all of fine wine. I have a lot of time for this forum, as the
people are polite, knowledgeable and have a sense of humour I can relate to.
Bordeaux
Central is a site that I have very little experience with, but its reputation
seems to be good. The site is actually run by an elected committee, which in
itself is unusual. The one drawback of this board is that messages from new
posters must be “approved” by the moderator before they are actually put up. This
is a security measure to stop troublemakers and attacks on the site. Once they
know who you are, the restriction is quickly lifted. If you are into European
wine, or want to be, it’s worth checking out this site. Some of the
forums are in
European languages; impressive. In the same way as the Australian sites are
Ozcentric but contain some “foreign muck,” this site is Eurocentric but
contains some “new world muck” too. Australian wine drinkers who are interested
in French wine in particular, should check out this site. The format is a
little different to most, but it seems easy to navigate and use. Unfortunately,
unless I miss-read how it works, there have been no new tasting notes added
since January, which seems a shame. The main discussion forum doesn’t get a
huge amount of traffic either but it looks friendly.
Strat’s Place is an interesting one, the
site is hosted in the US and is dedicated to wine, gardening, and the arts;
quite an eclectic mix. Like many of these sites, it is a labour of love and in
this case, like many others, a modicum of income is derived from small amounts
of advertising. The key site of interest is the
Strat's Wine Forum
which is moderated and run by Daniel Rogov in Israel.
Daniel is Israel's leading food and wine critic and without him, this forum
would be a shadow of itself. Daniel prides himself on being a curmudgeon, when in
reality he is a friendly teddy bear.
Whilst this forum may have a very
limited number of posters, it has a real family atmosphere. The majority of the
participants are either based in Israel or the US, although there are is a
smattering from as far away as Finland and Australia, as well as a French
connection. Much of the conversation revolves around Israeli and Kosher wine,
but the balance covers all wine regions of the world. Interestingly enough,
there are very few requests for tasting notes where Daniel has not tried the wine,
he must be a very prolific taster. Whilst many of the participants are
reasonably new to wine, there are a few experienced old hands who haunt this
forum as well.
The
Good Old US of A (and Canada)
The biggest has been saved till
last. Wine forums have been around since before the Internet as we know it
started, and many of today’s incarnations had their genesis way back in those
times. Probably the first dedicated forum was
WLDG
(Wine Lovers Discussion Group) which is hosted by Robin
Garr on his
Wine Lovers Page.
Running this site is a full-time occupation for Robin and it is paid for by
advertising. As it has been around for a long while, it is a mature site and
the base membership tends to have mature palates and know what they like and
dislike. As well as its mature base, this seems to be a site where many
inexperienced people go for advice and guidance. This board seems to have a
very high level of “wine conversation” which seems to be “for the sake of
conversation” amongst friends and acquaintances; rather than for wine enlightenment.
In some respects, it has an old
world club like atmosphere although new members are made to feel welcome. There
tends to be an emphasis on both French and American wines, although wines from
other parts of the world do get a little coverage. One of the hottest topics of
debate which frequently rears its head on this site revolves around Robert
Parker. There certainly seems to be a high anti-Parker feeling amongst many
members of the site. The layout of the site tends not to be as user-friendly as
others. Whilst Robin has a very open attitude towards the subjects debated, he
is fiercely protective of his own territory.
Whilst the previously discussed
site is based near the east coast, the
WCWN Forum (West
Coast Wine Network), as its name suggests is located on the West Coast of the US.
The site was started as a hobby by
The forums are broken up into
sections which make discussion easier. For example, you have General Discussion
in one forum and Tasting Notes in the second. The original software has been
heavily modified and whilst it is good, from a personal perspective there are
others that I more intuitive and faster to navigate through. In days gone by, I
would have been critical about the heavy-handed nature of forum moderation, but
nowadays it is sensibly managed.
Undoubtedly the biggest and most
popular forum is the Mark Squires’ Bulletin
Board hosted on the
Robert Parker web
site. Whilst this bulletin board has been around for some time, it
surged in popularity with its move to the Parker site. Parker is a huge
drawcard, and as his Wine Advocate publication reviews wines from all around
the world, discussion on the site tends to be just as diverse. There is a huge variety
of palate experience, from newbies to old hands. The site also attracts a lot
of people who are in the wine business, importers, wholesalers, retailers,
winemakers; you name it and they are there. Whilst all this professional experience
can be helpful, there may be hidden commercial agendas at play.
Parker drops in from time to time
and posts his thoughts which are highly appreciated by the majority of
participants. As expected, there is a huge amount of support for Parker and his
thoughts on this forum, but there are some posters who are not as enamoured
with Parker and are not afraid to articulate their thinking. This can sometimes
make for interesting reading, but after awhile, it can be incredibly boring.
This is one board where it appears a number of people like to hear the sound of
their own voice, or more accurately see their thoughts in print, even if they have
nothing constructive to add and are repeating things that have been said ad nauseum;
it doesn't stop them from posting the same old thing over and over again.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if they are not adding anything
constructive to the debate, why bother? Still, there is a lot of useful
information to be found on the site, the problem is sorting through the chaff
to find it. The use of real names is mandatory, and as past experience has
shown, if the moderator doesn't like your name, registration can and will be
denied. This site can be a bit of a snake pit, but is nothing in comparison to
the next one.
The Wine Spectator Forum
is not moderated and “discussion” on this board can make two Pit Bulls fighting
it out for their very lives look like kindergarten amateur hour. This forum is
owned by the world's largest wine publication and as an outsider looking in; it
looks like they regard it as a necessary evil and have it because they have to,
rather than because they either want it, or because they think it provides any
business benefit. Unlike Mark Squires’ Board where Parker drops in and uses the
board to positively promote himself, the staff of Wine Spectator avoided their
bulletin board is though it had a dose of pox.
Whilst there are a few old hands
with experienced palates that frequent this forum, the majority of the posters
tend to have less experience, but most of them have a good thirst for
knowledge. The cross-section of wine discussed is broad, but tends not to be at
the lofty price points that can dominate wine discussion on some other forums.
There is a huge amount of non wine-related
discussion on this forum; much of it gets very heated and personal. The funny
thing is, that despite its bear pit nature, visiting the site is a bit like
being sucked into a poor quality soap opera; watch it once and you can get
hooked. Especially recommended for those in the US, who are new to wine and
don't want to get to serious about it.
Vino Cellars
was an offspring that was created out of continuing major conflict at Wine
Spectator a couple of years ago, when of many of the regular contributors
departed. Brad Molzen runs the site as a hobby and
it is financed by both donation and minimal amounts of advertising. Whilst many
forums are easy-to-use, without doubt, this is the best laid out forum. The
break-up of topics into sections is simple and sensible. The site is incredibly
easy to navigate and is well managed. Unfortunately, in recent times it appears
as though the moderator is becoming a little heavy-handed with the delete
trigger and is deleting posts on principle, rather than letting commonsense
dictate the action.
It has an interesting mix of
contributors, many seeming to have mid-level experience, but the thirst for
knowledge looks healthy. It is also a genuinely very friendly forum. It has a
good balance of wine-related matter that is broken up by friendly banter that
is not excessive. In some ways the greatest strength of this forum is also its
greatest weakness. Whilst it is incredibly well organised it can be incredibly
boring. For example if someone was to post a tasting note on the 2001 Shirvington
Shiraz, rather than starting a new topic, you can bet your sweet bippy they
would do a search first and it would be added to
the
original thread that now contains 58 replies. In many ways of this can be
seen as positive but unfortunately the same cannot be said for a couple of
other threads. How about the one titled “Glassware
Losses – 2005” which has 129 replies and has been viewed 1989 times. But
that's nothing, how about the thread titled “How
much wine do you have on order?” It must be riveting stuff; there are 613
replies and the thread has been viewed 11,221 times and still growing strong.
Thoughts of “going to the life shop in buying one” come to mind. Despite this
criticism, the site is essentially a very good one and has excellent long-term
potential; primarily because of the enthusiasms of contributors: let's just
hope it doesn't get bogged down in mindless trivia, and the participants’
palate maturity develops faster than the proliferation of essentially useless
posts.
Probably one of the smallest wine
forums in North America is located in Canada.
Wine Fanatic is as a
hobby run by three keen and enthusiastic wine lovers. They basically started
their own site so that they can do their own thing without anyone telling them
what they can and cannot do. A fairly smart plan, especially when one of the
three has been known to be “somewhat controversial,” but that is the pot
calling the kettle black. It's small, it’s cliquey but in its favour it’s
genuinely friendly to “outsiders” who are made to feel welcome. “A spade” is
frequently called ‘a bloody shovel” but that is part of its charm. It's the
sort of place where you can have a healthy disagreement, without it getting
bitter and twisted, and then laugh about it at the end.
Last but not least is
Wine
Therapy. Now I'm all for eccentricity, but this place raises the art to
dizzy heights. Frequented by knowledgeable, free thinking, experienced wine
drinkers, who are not your average sheep or lemmings following anyone else's
palate, this place seems really weird to the uninitiated. Whilst it maintains a
very open and friendly atmosphere, although it has no pretension or desire to
be so, it is very much an exclusive club with a select membership. There is a
hard core group of experienced, mature palates that has an Old World to focus,
and as cliquey as the site may seem, the contributors are the complete
antithesis of stuffy Old World wine snobs. Its irreverence and lack of wine
bovine manure is a refreshing contrast, bit what it lacks in wine mystery, it
makes up for in coded communications that can only be understood by insiders.
Still, it’s worth a look.
Wine forums can be a load of fun
and very educational places; equally they can absorb huge amounts of time. No
matter your level of knowledge, experience or choice in wine styles, there is
probably a wine forum that is suitable, so don’t be afraid to put a toe in the
water (but maybe don’t dive in head first until you see how deep the water is.
Finally, in
last week’s story I
examined the credibility of wine forums in general. There is one key factor
that many people may not think about when posting on a wine forum; they are not
private clubs where everything that is said stays inside the hallowed halls;
they are open and public for all the world to see; so how do you want the world
to perceive your posts and would you say the same thing directly to someone’s
face?
Copyright © Ric Einstein 2005
